More Lies From Jonathan Elinoff and “truthalliance.net”

Elinoff can’t keep his lies straight, exposes himself.

by RAIMD

We are not interested in giving history lessons to Jonathan Elinoff. Needless to say, his understandings of both Gandhi and Martin Luther King in his latest post are of the typical Hollywood variety. (1) We don’t seek to have any discourse with someone who is a complete liar. If Jonathan Elinoff wants to have a debate on the history of social movements and violence, we will discuss that with him only after he publicly comes clean. We will not discuss any of our materials with Elinoff until he admits what almost everyone reading these exchanges knows already. We will not allow Elinoff to change the topic. Until Elinoff publicly explains why he completely fabricated lies about encounters and statements that never happened, we will have nothing to do with him. Also, we have no connection to DAN as Elinoff implies.

Elinoff’s words speak for themselves. Let’s take a look.

Elinoff, credible or not? You be the judge.

Our characterization of Elinoff’s interview on Alex Jones:

It was news to us that Elinoff had a beef against Recreate 68. We gather from Elinoff’s own statements that he is upset about not getting the spotlight for the 9-11 Truth Movement at the DNC protests. For Elinoff, if he doesn’t get the spotlight for 9-11 Truth, then, all of a sudden, everyone else is an agent, according to his logic. If he doesn’t get his way, then he’ll try to wreck the hard work of others. So, Elinoff spouted off a number of sensational lies against RAIMD (and others) in order to try to wreck Recreate 68. RAIMD is a natural target because our politics are already considered controversial even within the activist scene. Not to mention that in the interview Elinoff often mixes up various individuals and groups. None of this mattered to Alex Jones, who is hardly concerned about accuracy. Jones is just looking to make a sensational splash. So, Elinoff was given airtime on national radio by Jones to bully the local Denver activist community, of which Elinoff is not even a part. (Italics ours.) (2)

On April 22nd, Elinoff describes his appearance on Alex Jones:

No one from Truth Alliance or We Are Change Colorado are making accusations that because 911 Truth was not given a fair presence at the R-68 demonstrations that they must be agents. Concerns were raised as to when R-68 said they were still looking for speakers and talent for their event, many truthers include musicians and talented speakers. Why wouldn’t they want to give 911 Truth a fair presence on their stage with their speakers and talent? No one is upset that they weren’t given that opportunity, but thought that other groups should be aware that R-68 is working with many activist groups that promote all kinds of messages, including those that are extremely controversial, to say the least, to which will be granted time on the stage. (Italics ours.) (3)

Excerpts, rough transcripts from the Elinoff on Alex Jones:

17:30 Elinoff: This is RAIMD, its a violent anarchist group that is attending the Recreate 68 meetings. They are given open arms. By the way, they [Recreate 68?] gave us the stiff arm when we asked if 911 truth could have any speakers… Our movement is huge. He said, “no we don’t agree with 911, you stay away from us.” You give every activist group an invite and an open arm and you stiff arm us?

18:00 Jones: they’re operatives… they’re operatives.

18:10 Elinoff: eh. yeah. The whole thing stinks, it just not adding up this, RAIMD.

18:15 Jones: They’re state police. They’re operatives. There are Defense Intelligence… Army, Navy.. There’s Homeland security in there… Very dangerous, very dangerous.

19:15 Jones: Black ops, exposing the enemy’s tactics. (Italics ours.) (4)

Elinoff’s April 16th Statement on the Alex Jones radio show reasonably matches up with our characterization. If people can stomach hearing Elinoff and Jones attack the Denver activist scene for nearly twenty minutes, they should listen to the Jones show in its entirety. In the full show, Elinoff and Jones engage in twenty minutes worth of badjacketing against local activists. Both sought to bring the police down on local activists. This in spite of posturing as against the “police state.” Elinoff’s tame presentation of his appearance on Jones is a lie.

Elinoff makes a fool of himself, can’t keep his lies straight

As we have already stated, Elinoff simply made up the story about blood, urine, and molotov cocktails. It was based on absolutely nothing at all. In fact, RAIMD has never engaged Elinoff in a conversation.

Elinoff exposes Elinoff; he can’t keep his lies straight. In the following passage from the April 16th article, Elinoff claims that he spoke with RAIMD directly about the urine and blood:

After speaking with RAIMD, We Are Change Colorado became aware that they intend to throw bags of urine and blood on cops at the DNC protests, all under the name of the umbrella organization ReCreate 68. See their website here: https://raimd.wordpress.com/. (Italics ours.) (5)

In the following passage from his Alex Jones appearance, Elinoff again claims that he spoke with RAIMD. In addition, he claims he has a video of the exchange! Of course he doesn’t have video because the exchange with RAIMD never happened. He only says so to gain credibility with Jones, who uncritically laps up everything Elinoff says:

15:20 Elinoff: We did go to the meeting Sunday here for Recreate 68. We able to find a group — RAIMD — who we got all of this on camera and we are going to get it up on truth alliance... We are still editing it and basically they admitted to us first of all I said are you familar with Ghandi and the success of Martin Luther King being peaceful and that’s when the founder of RAIMD — these are the guys running Recreate 68 heads up — he says to me, “Violence is he only thing these f’in cops understand.” I looked at him and I said, “are you kidding me?” So that is what kicked off the whole debate about violence and nonviolence being effective. He handed me off a dvd called “Troublemaker” that he’s been handing out at Recreate 68 meetings. This DVD is put out by this RAIMD group — revolutionary anti-imperialist movement Denver — … It’s all verified, they even admit all this, they are telling people to bring bags of blood and urine and throw it on the cops no joke this is against the law. (Italics ours.) (6)

After we exposed Elinoff in our latest post, all of a sudden, Elinoff changes his story. No longer does he have a video as he claimed on the Jones show. Now, he is no longer even claiming to have heard the conversation! Rather, Elinoff now says that this is all a potential misunderstanding and that his knowledge comes from “two confidential sources.” Elinoff tries to shift the blame for the lies onto two non-existent confidential sources:

RAIMD has made statements denying that they were planning to throw bags of blood and urine on police at the DNC protests, which Truth Alliance has 2 confidential sources for, including a witness who overheard a conversation involving police. If these sources were lying or inaccurate, we apologize for the misunderstanding. (7)

Again, we don’t have to refute Elinoff because he can’t even keep his story straight. Anyone with any sense should be able to see what is going on here. Elinoff is changing his tune after being exposed.

Elinoff makes understatement of the year

In Elinoff’s April 22nd post, he actually describes a point he actually made on the Jones Show:

In the interview with Alex Jones, Jonathan did not say that RAIMD was ReCreate 68, but rather specifically identified that ReCreate 68 was an umbrella organization which is working with many different activist groups including RAIMD and that activists groups, when centralized, will be all lumped in together as one group, which is what will probably happen. ( 8 )

The above passage from the 22nd is referring to the following passage from the Jones Show:

16:40 Elinoff: This thing (RAIMD?) is designed to sabotage … this whole thing is going to drown out any message we have all this is under the umbrella of Recreate 68…

17:00 Jones: We’ve gotta blow their op.. We’ve gotta blow their op… You got to get that video up now and you have to demand the police …. they are calling for hardcore felonies.. they have shields and weapons on the website…(Italics ours) (9)

Earlier in the same Jones interview:

15:20 Elinoff: ..these are the guys running Recreate 68 heads up.. (italics ours) (10)

Elinoff may not have said that RAIMD was Recreate 68. However, he did say that RAIMD are “running Recreate 68.” And, anyone who listens to the full interview will see that Elinoff purposefully blurs the line between various organizations and individuals. Elinoff is not interested in truth, he is interested in his own petty agenda. For the record, RAIMD is not running Recreate 68. RAIMD is one of many groups within Recreate 68.

Why would Elinoff say that RAIMD is running Recreate 68? The answer is simple. Elinoff is trying scare people away from Recreate 68, something he does throughout the interview on the Jones show. He is trying to wreck Recreate 68 because he wants the spotlight for 9-11 Truth, and himself.

Elinoff on Elinoff

Elinoff is a petty liar whose words speak for themselves. We don’t have to expose him because he does a good enough job of that on his own.

What is most revealing about all of this is how people like Elinoff and Jones require absolutely no evidence to make outrageous claims. Jones, or Elinoff for that matter, knows nothing about the local activist scene. Yet Jones allowed the jackass Elinoff time on national radio to smear the Denver activist scene. Jones even joined in with the smear campaign.

RAIMD has nothing against people seriously researching 9-11. Our problem with Elinoff has nothing to do with 9-11. It has to do with the fact that he is a petty liar who attacks the local activist scene all over the national media. He is a petty liar who threatens to call the police on activists on bogus allegations. Jones gave Elinoff national air time and joined in. Elinoff pulls dangerous lies out of thin air. He changes his story right and left such that Elinoff’s own words betray him. He distorts and lies all over the place. People like Elinoff and Jones are not about truth, they are not even about a minimal standard of journalistic integrity. They are about their own petty agendas.

Notes.

1. http://truthalliance.net/Archive/tabid/67/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/742/Default.aspx

2. https://raimd.wordpress.com/2008/04/21/raimd-responds-to-truthalliancenet-article/

3. http://truthalliance.net/Archive/tabid/67/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/742/Default.aspx

4. Our transcriptions of the Alex Jones MP3s may not be exact. We have used “…” to indicate missing text. Listen to the full Alex Jones Show where Elinoff is interviewed. MP3. http://truthalliance.net/Profiles/MyProfile/tabid/113/PID/5/Default.aspx

5. http://truthalliance.net/Archive/tabid/67/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/723/Default.aspx

6. Our transcriptions of the Alex Jones MP3s may not be exact. We have used “…” to indicate missing text. Listen to the full Alex Jones Show where Elinoff is interviewed. MP3. http://truthalliance.net/Profiles/MyProfile/tabid/113/PID/5/Default.aspx

7. http://truthalliance.net/Archive/tabid/67/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/742/Default.aspx

8. http://truthalliance.net/Archive/tabid/67/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/742/Default.aspx

9. Our transcriptions of the Alex Jones MP3s may not be exact. We have used “…” to indicate missing text. Listen to the full Alex Jones Show where Elinoff is interviewed. MP3. http://truthalliance.net/Profiles/MyProfile/tabid/113/PID/5/Default.aspx

10. ibid.

RAIMD Responds to Truthalliance.net Article

Jonathan Elinoff and Alex Jones are liars

by

RAIMD

Various distortions and lies about RAIMD have recently been made on various web pages and on the Alex Jones radio show by Jonathan Elinoff, of the 9/11 Truth Alliance Network and We Are Change Colorado, and by Alex Jones. Elinoff’s libelous article was posted to the Truth Alliance and other web pages on April 16, 2008.(1) Elinoff was interviewed by Alex Jones that same day. In the radio interview, Elinoff made even more baseless allegations, with Jones joining in.(2) RAIMD is setting the record straight.

RAIMD will not address the many other statements made about other organizations by Elinoff and Jones. RAIMD will stick to the statements made about our organization. We are not going to address every single distortion or lie made by Elinoff or Jones. To unpack every single bit of nonsense would be too tedious. Instead we will focus on the main claims against us.

Allegation #1: Elinoff’s nose grows an inch

Elinoff writes, “After speaking with RAIMD, We Are Change Colorado became aware that they intend to throw bags of urine and blood on cops at the DNC protests, all under the name of the umbrella organization ReCreate 68. See their website here: https://raimd.wordpress.com/.” (3)

RAIMD did not make these statements attributed to us. In fact, RAIMD did not make any statements that even approximated these. The statements attributed to RAIMD are completely invented by Elinoff, they are based on absolutely nothing. In fact, if RAIMD ever exchanged words with Elinoff, it would have been a friendly exchange in passing, probably when distributing our materials. RAIMD would never flippantly discuss illegal activities of the kind that Elinoff alleges.

Not only did RAIMD not make the statements, RAIMD wholly disagrees with them. RAIMD is a non-violent organization. RAIMD does not promote violence or participate in violence. RAIMD believes that violence is not a viable means to accomplish positive social change within United States borders at present or in the foreseeable future. This isn’t to say RAIMD rejects violence in principle. All revolutions have been violent. Even the Amerikan “revolution” was violent. There is a time and a place. Plus, throwing urine and blood is hardly violence. It’s too passe for us anyway. It’s been done.

RAIMD has been involved in activism for a long time. RAIMD has never been involved in any violence at any protests. In fact, the only violence that RAIMD has witnessed at Denver protests has been committed by the police, not the protesters. The most militant protesters have never been violent by any stretch of the term. Those that stroke up fears of violence from activists, as Elinoff does, are basically assisting the state in quashing dissent.

RAIMD is an educational organization. RAIMD’s main role in the broader activist community is to distribute anti-imperialist, anti-Amerikan, anti-racist, pro-national liberation, pro-youth liberation materials. RAIMD believes that Amerika is the biggest enemy of humanity. We do not hide our message, our message is straight forward for all to see on our blog. Despite our politics, which many liberals may find “out there,” we have had good experiences working with people from diverse activist circles. RAIMD does not agree with everyone in the activist community, as many don’t agree with us. However, we understand that we do not have to agree with people on every little detail to work together in a coalition. RAIMD’s experience with local activists has been mostly positive.

Allegation #2: Elinoff’s nose grows another inch

On the Alex Jones radio show, Elinoff alleged that RAIMD are “the real leaders of Recreate 68.” RAIMD does not lead Recreate 68, despite what Elinoff claimed in the interview on Alex Jones. RAIMD supports Recreate 68 because they are the most effective group organizing protests against the DNC. Recreate 68 will amplify the voices from sectors of the community that are drowned out in mainstream political discourse. In addition, Recreate 68 is non-sectarian. It is our experience that they seek to include as many alternative voices as possible. Also, Recreate 68 has a participatory approach to organizing. Recreate 68 involves as many people as possible in the decision making processes. The organizers are always willing to listen to new ideas. RAIMD supports Recreate 68’s efforts and lends our modest support where we can.

Allegation #3: Elinoff.. yet another inch

Elinoff writes, “On Tuesday, August 26th, the “Immigration Rights Rally” will take place that Glenn says he will be inviting all illegal immigrants down to the DNC to protest their “right” to be here. This day will be very dangerous to protesters because the activist group RAIMD has been handing out dvds and inciting physical violence towards “White Americans” for stealing land from Mexico and killing millions of natives and using slavery as their exploit to achieve dominance in the past. The RAIMD activist group has asked people to prepare for throwing bags of blood and urine on cops and they have discussed how to build molotov cocktails.” (4)

Once again, these statements attributed to us never happened. RAIMD distributes DVDs and materials that explain the origin of Amerikan affluence by linking it to 1) genocide, 2) theft of indigenous and Mexican land, 3) the slave trade, and 4) continued imperialism against the Third World. One of the videos on the DVD that we distribute encourages people to “hate Amerikkka, it’s the right thing to do.” Nowhere does this DVD or other RAIMD materials encourage violence as described by Elinoff.

In addition, the April 13th Recreate 68 community forum was taped by an independent media source. At no time did anyone mention anything about blood, urine, or Molotov cocktails. Hopefully, they will make the videos available so that everyone can see what a jackass liar Elinoff is.

Long nose, hot air

Throughout the interview on Jones’ radio show, both Elinoff and Jones demonstrate no actual knowledge of RAIMD. They make outrageous statements again and again about RAIMD. Yet, not once did either Elinoff or Jones actually try to contact RAIMD for an interview or comment before slandering us all over the web and airwaves. Elinoff and Jones are not interested in truth. They are interested in sensationalism. Facts do not matter. Otherwise they would have contacted us and done a proper interview. Jones did not even try to contact RAIMD for comment before broadcasting slander against us nationwide.

Interestingly, we did not even know who Elinoff was until this article and interview started circulating. The only thing we really remember about Elinoff at the community forum is that he seemed strangely fixated on the fact that hip hop artists The Coup were mentioned as one of the acts that might play at the DNC protest events. Apparently, The Coup had an album cover that was released before 9/11 that showed the World Trade Center blowing up as a statement against global capitalism. The Coup’s Boots Riley explained this album cover publicly shortly after 9/11. (5)

It was news to us that Elinoff had a beef against Recreate 68. We gather from Elinoff’s own statements that he is upset about not getting the spotlight for the 9-11 Truth Movement at the DNC protests. For Elinoff, if he doesn’t get the spotlight for 9-11 Truth, then, all of a sudden, everyone else is an agent, according to his logic. If he doesn’t get his way, then he’ll try to wreck the hard work of others. So, Elinoff spouted off a number of sensational lies against RAIMD (and others) in order to try to wreck Recreate 68. RAIMD is a natural target because our politics are already considered controversial even within the activist scene. Not to mention that in the interview Elinoff often mixes up various individuals and groups. None of this mattered to Alex Jones, who is hardly concerned about accuracy. Jones is just looking to make a sensational splash. So, Elinoff was given airtime on national radio by Jones to bully the local Denver activist community, of which Elinoff is not even a part.

RAIMD, as an organization, has no official position on the 9-11 events. RAIMD is not opposed to legitimate research into unanswered questions pertaining to 9-11. RAIMD is opposed to the underlying racism and anti-migrant populism in the 9-11 Truth Movement, and will continue to oppose it. RAIMD is opposed to pinocchios like Elinoff who slander real activists. The 9-11 Truth Movement often complains that they are ignored. With unprincipled clowns like Elinoff as your pointmen, what do you expect?

Notes.

(1) http://truthalliance.net/Archive/tabid/67/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/723/Default.aspx

(2) http://truthalliance.net/Profiles/MyProfile/tabid/113/PID/5/Default.aspx

(3) http://truthalliance.net/Archive/tabid/67/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/723/Default.aspx

(4)ibid.

(5) http://www.daveyd.com/bootsonthewarpolitics.html

For all those visiting from the b.s. “truthalliance” article

This is a message for all those new visitors coming here from the piece of fiction written by the “truthalliance.net.”  RAIMD will come out with a statement later on the slanders and outright lies that have been spread about us by the idiot who is doing pig-like work against R68. Just to be clear, RAIMD said nothing attributed by us in that crap article.

While you are here, take time to educate yourself on real anti-imperialist politics. We hope some of you get away from the white supremacist right wing politics inherent in the “truther” movement and get on the side of the oppressed of the world.